Shark Bytes

Carroll O'Connor didn't want to do All in the Family in the first place. Didn't want to play a bigot. He had to be coaxed and courted.

So then virtually every year that AITF ran, O'Connor played coy about continuing in the role of Archie Bunker. He demanded more money, changes to the part, more creative control...and got all the concessions, because AITF was #1 and he threatened to walk if he didn't get his way.

So then it's years later, and The Jeffersons have left (to their own series), Rob Reiner has left, Sally Struthers has left...even Jean Stapleton has left! And who's still there? Still grousing, still grumbling, but still playing Archie Bunker more than 10 years after first refusing the role? Carroll O'Connor.

Kinda wacky.

ARCHIE BUNKER'S PLACE initially had potential, but was whitewashed mid-way through the first season. Archie was struggling to deal with his prejudices while running his own business. As we had learned on AITF, Archie had grown up believing certain falsehoods about various races, religions, and groups (i.e., blacks, hispanics, gays, jews, etc.). But now, he was in a situation where, being a businessman as the owner of a tavern, Archie couldn't just refuse to hire, say, Veronica as a cook just because she was a woman (in that episode, Archie declared, "a cook should be a MAN!").This was because, whether Archie liked the idea of a woman as a tavern cook or not, Veronica was the most qualified applicant, and as Harry (the bartender) pointed out, no one else working at the tavern could cook, Archie included.
The same was also true in terms of Archie taking on Murray Klein as his co-owner. Murray was the only truly qualified businessman w/ the financial skills and business saavy who was willing to work with Archie. Thus, Archie had to forget about his prejudices against the jews and learn to work with Murray.
The show might have been better if it dealt w/ these aspects in more depth and w/ more mental "struggle" on Archie's part, but instead, it took the safe route, dealing w/ Archie raising Stephanie (and I agree w/ the poster who opined that the running gag of her trying to sneak a drink and someone stopped her in the nick of time got very, very old and corny), Barney joining a dating service, etc. It's probably just as well that Jean Stapleton left when she did: she actually looks a little irritated in a few of the episodes in which she appeared. And I knew something was wrong when even the episode(s) in which Mike and Gloria came back for Thanksgiving failed to satisfy me (and the whole thing of Gloria crying and bawling, Lucy Ricardo-style, was very annoying. At least on AITF, it was kept to a minimun).
As to when ABP jumped, I would say that the jump came after the first episode of season #2, in which Archie was trying to deal w/ Edith's unexpected death. That was the high point of this series, and from then on, the show just played it safe in terms of stories, characterizations, and situations. I don't think ABP was ultimately bad per se--it was just too safe compared to AITF. PEACE!

Don't forget the Jewish accountant (more play on the Jews-know-all-about-money thing), the African-American housekeeper, and the blind guy at the bar who Archie would always wave his hand in front of. Gee, Arch, you're a bigot AND you mock the handicapped. Awful show that never should have aired.

Aw jeez, for a guy who is about as wacky liberal as you can get, Norman Lear sure did enjoy ramming every stereotype about every ethnic group known to man down our throats in this one.

Martin Balsam as the Jewish business partner - Couldn't have seen that coming. What, are all Jews supposed to be good with money or something?

The latino dishwasher - Yep, those Hispanics are good for only one thing - cleaning.

The Irish bar hopper - Ok, Norman, we get it - I guess the Irish like to drink.

Why didn't he go the extra mile?

Why not have a black character that shuffled instead of walked, wore dark sunglasses and a leisure suit, and spoke jive?

Why not have a blond, haired, big breasted Swede?

Why not have the camera-toting, excellent at math Asian?

Horrible. Just horrible.

i dont care what anyone thinks this is the greatest show to ever be on t.v i think thaat archie was more likeable as a mellew old man that a retarded a--hole anyway... so all you people that dont like this show can just go away

Archie Bunker's Place had an opportunity to be a great show from the get-go, not only because it was feeding off the enormous popularity of it's predecessor AITF, but also because it had all the dominoes lined up to knock down the minute it hit the air. It had a gay busboy, an Irish cook who was a stereotypical Irish boozer, a Latino dishwasher and Martin Balsam as Archie's Jewish partner. Viewers must have been chomping at the bit to see how Archie, an inveterate racist, would butt heads with all of them! Unfortunately, it never quite panned out that way. Except for occasional jabs at their ethnicity, some of it funny, most of it tame and lame, that opportunity was never really explored. This was a new, more subdued Archie, and it didn't work to anyone's advantage, either the viewer's or the show's. Archie was one of the most stereotypical characters ever on TV with AITF, as the show's liberal execs did their best to portray the modern conservative as a racist, bigoted, homophobic, sexist, intolerant a-hole. I wonder how they must have felt when Archie's character not only gained popularity with the public, but was embraced by them! I remember "Archie Bunker for president!" bumper stickers and T-shirts, and Archie was one of the most beloved television characters of all-time. They must have been shocked, however I doubt they were too dismayed, as he was a huge money-maker for them. Unfortunately, ABP portrayed an older, kinder, gentler Archie, and the American public who had embraced the old Archie just weren't buying into it. So, with the missed opportunity it had set itself up with, ABP became just another sitcom. Nothing special about it, nothing any funnier or more controversial than any other watered-down sitcom. It had it's share of 'special' episodes, but what sitcoms don't? I think it never was really good enough in the first place to have jumped the shark. It never got any worse. It always was pretty bad. Peace.

Aww Geez, look at dis Edit!!!!

What a bunch of crapola!!!

Jumped Day 1.

I think the right way to describe it would be to say that "All in the Family" jumped the shark when it became "Archie Bunker's Place." Neither show by itself jumped the shark, but the change in and of itself was the jumping point. As noted by many, Archie became a nice guy in "Archie Bunker's Place," and, thus, the show no longer had an edge.

Easily one of the worst shows ever to hit the airwaves. Carrol O'Connor did not know when to let something end gracefully. He was not funny on his own and CBS should never have allowed this atrocity.

This show jumped the shark when Edith died.

By 1978,Rob Riener and Sally Struthers had enough and wanted to move on-and thus they decided to end All In The Family.There were very good episodes in that final season and the episodes where Mike and Gloria left were touching. But they decided to keep the series going and brought in little Danielle Brisbois to keep a family in the show.It was a mistake,but I don't blame her.The actual show ended in 1979(and I believe Norman Lear retired then). Yet they continued as Archie Bunker's Place.For a while it had some quality,but it was really only a shadow of what All In The Family had been during it's glory days.By then,Jean Stapleton was tired of being Edith,so they killed her off. I did see the season premiere in 1980 and cried along with Archie as he commented,"I was supposed to be the first to go."After that I gave up seeing it entirely.Unfortunately,not enough of the viewers gave up-and it lasted 3 more years. Carroll O'Conner seemed to be the only man in the country who hadn't had enough of Archie Bunker by that time...and face it,Archie had really mellowed from the hard-core bigot that he was.By 1981 I couldn't wait for the show to end. I do admire O'Conner for getting another series role(In The Hear of The Night)afterwards,proving that he was not totaly typecast,even after 13 years in a role he should've had for only 8.

As sad as it is to say, ARCHIE BUNKER'S PLACE jumped from day one. This was just a bad idea from the beginning. Clearly, the producers of ALL IN THE FAMILY wanted to keep the franchise alive despite the exits of Jean Stapleton, Rob Reiner, and sally Struthers and decided that if O'Connor was willing to continue, the would morph AITF into this weak spinoff and move Archie permanently into the bar he purchased on the previous show. I understand wanting to keep Archie on television because he was a wonderfully unique character who changed the television landscape forever, but without Edith and the Stivics as sounding boards and buffers, Archie was just too abrasive by himself and was hard to swallow for 22 minutes a week. We dealt with Archie's rantings and ravings before because we had Edith and Gloria and Mike as the voices of reason and antagonists for Archie's bigoted and outrageous views, but with no one to bounce his ravings off of, Archie became too much of a good thing, so to speak. He had no chemistry with Danielle Brisbois's Stephanie and his onscreen relationship with Martin Balsam just came off as two seasoned acting veterans trying to outstage one another. Bill Quinn contributed some funny moments as the blind Mr. Van Ransleer, but the magic that was ALL IN THE FAMILY was gone and they should have allowed the show to die a respectful death rather than wring the gimmick dry with this tired spinoff.

This show was pretty good. Especially when Martin Balsam was on. Didn't compare to AITF, of course, but still pretty good. I did however hate that everyone Archie had working in the bar was a different minority Hispanic dishwasher, gay bus boy, drunken Irish chef, Jewish partner, etc. Nobody has mentioned yet, what I consider one of the greatest Archie scenes ever. Second only to Ediths death. Remember when Celeste Holm comes in dripping with diamonds & furs trying to adopt Stephanie? She was so sure as the only blood relative & rich, to boot, that she'd be deemed more acceptable as Stephanie's guardian. Never mind that when her daughter eloped with that loser she was cut off, even after Stephanie was born? And that when her daughter died she never tried to get Stephanie back because her husband forbade it? She waited until he died to even investigate & found that Edith was a good substitute so she left them alone until Edith Died. Then Archie gave this whole big speech about how when his daughter married someone he didn't approve of, she didn't run away. She married right in his living room. They moved in while his son-in-law was in college (laugh time here) "with never a harsh word between us". This showed us that Archie had humanity & wasn't as bad as people thought he was. Those 2 episodes, along with the 2 about Edith's death & the one about Stephanie's bat mitzvah where her no good bum of a father returns & steals her money tree were some of this show's best episodes. After Martin Balsam left, the show went downhill fast with Barry Rabinowitz & his never before seen niece Billie.

It jumped the shark when Martin Balsam's character, Murray Kline, left the show. The show lost the person that could challenge Archie's views. After Murray left, Archie was able to say whatever he wanted. This show wasn't supposed to be another All in the Family and it wasn't. I thought the show was good when Martin Balsam was on it. The show stopped working when there was no longer a foil for Archie.

Once the original premise of "All In the Family" was gone, there was no real need for "Archie Bunker's Place." Archie Bunker was placed in the most unfamiliar setting of any television character in any ill-advised spin-off (and this really WASN'T a spin-off but an altered version of the original). Sure, it would have been a difficult decision to pull the plug on such a beloved character. CBS and Norman Lear were loyal to Archie, but that sentiment began to wane. When "Archie Bunker's Place" and "M*A*S*H" left the eye network in 1983, their departures were markedly different. "M*A*S*H" had the largest single television audience ever when the 4077th went home, thanks in part to effective advertising at CBS, starting the trend of super-hyped last episodes. By contrast, Archie Bunker would receive no such treatment: no celebrated "last episode," no chance to say "goodbye." Carroll O'Connor lobbied CBS and Lear for a reprisal, long enough for Archie to bid his audience farewell, to no avail. O'Connor's relationship with Lear was understandably strained after that. After five atop the Nielsens and helping to give CBS and Lear a virtual on the first half of the 70s, the character of Archie Bunker deserved a more fitting send-off. The studio audience should have been a chance to give Archie and Carroll O'Connor the standing ovation they both so richly deserved. Those truly were the days!